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Discuss => Reader's Lounge => Topic started by: AurumLutra on July 10, 2012, 02:08:56 AM



Title: Authors Deserving Attention
Post by: AurumLutra on July 10, 2012, 02:08:56 AM
Even on porn-heavy websites like Fur Affinity and SoFurry will you find authors that really are gifted. Erotic or not, some furs actually understand character development, plot, and the English language for that matter. And of course they receive little thanks or attention because FA is just one notch above Youtube for craptastic butchering of English.

So, here's your chance. What little-known authors in the fandom do you think deserve our attention and thanks? Links to their galleries/websites/profiles are of course appreciated!


Title: Re: Authors Deserving Attention
Post by: poisonpen on May 09, 2013, 01:06:21 AM
In hearing from other members of the site and from your posting here it seems like members of this site look down their noses at writers whose stories have erotic content.  I can't speak for FA because I feel it is one of the worst sites for writers, but SoFurry has plenty of writers that have a talent for marrying erotic content with "character development, plot, and the English language".  Many use sex like it is used in real life, to bond characters together.  I actually find that stories that don't have sex in them, even if it is behind closed doors are usually not very realistic.


Title: Re: Authors Deserving Attention
Post by: Erkhyan on May 10, 2013, 01:43:15 PM
I was always under the impression that we were neutral in the matter of sex in stories. Some of us don’t like it, some don’t mind. I perfectly remember recommending two writers once (one ended up joining this site) whose stories, while not necessarily erotica, had their own share of explicit sexual scenes.


Title: Re: Authors Deserving Attention
Post by: Altivo on May 10, 2013, 02:46:05 PM
As a reader and reviewer of furry lit (and non-lit) I see far too much stuff that exists solely for the supposed erotic content. Hence my advice to new writers: Don't use sex scenes as a crutch. Develop real, three dimensional characters. Sex is never essential to that, nor to an active plot line.

Very, very few of the writers who continue to garner respect years after their work appears in public are writers of erotica. In fact, the only ones that come to mind are noted for writing subliminal erotica or stories in which the erotic content is based on innuendo, inference, and things that take place behind the scenes.

That said, no, we have no ban on erotic content as such. But don't ask me personally to review it unless you want to feel teeth.  ;D


Title: Re: Authors Deserving Attention
Post by: poisonpen on May 10, 2013, 09:39:57 PM
I guess that tells me all I need to know about this site.  It also helps to explain why this site has only 407 writers on it after all these years (my guess is only about a tenth of those are still active.  Looking at the author index it appears that the VAST majority of them have posted 3 or less stories, so I would assume they have moved on.).  All seems rather pretentious to me.  LOL  It seems like an exclusive little hoity-toity club that isn't very inclusive.  But hey if that makes you feel superior, more power to you.

A writer can write a novel that has tremendous character development and excellent plot and still contain sex scenes.  And that's not just furry stories.  Many mainstream novels have sex in them and many are by very successful authors.  If sex is used as the spice as opposed to the meat of the story it can make a tasty and compelling story.

Maybe you should be honest with writers who decide to come to this site.  The intro should read: “We have no ban on erotic content as such, BUT if you should chose to write it you will be considered a second class citizen and the Administrators and “in” crowd will look down their noses at you.  They may even bite you...”


Title: Re: Authors Deserving Attention
Post by: Altivo on May 11, 2013, 02:54:55 AM
Now you are erroneously ascribing my personal opinion, which I told you was personal, to the entire site population. No, I don't care for porn. That's me. It has nothing to do with the policies or content of the site. I don't own the site, and I don't make the rules. I just stated my own opinion.

The story archive here has pretty heavy traffic, judging by the read statistics. Most of my material on there has over ten thousand reads, some of it three or four times that. Readers are not required to register in order to read, so many of them do not do so. They have to register to leave comments, and if they aren't registered they don't comment. The site is active, but in a different way than Fur Affinity or So Furry. I would say there is plenty of room for both. Since both of those sites already exist, there doesn't seem to be any need for us to be redundant rather than different.


Title: Re: Authors Deserving Attention
Post by: poisonpen on May 11, 2013, 03:04:43 PM
No I am not ascribing your personal opinion to the whole site, that is just your assumption (and perhaps an insight into your (egocentric?) personality...).  It has been my experience with most of the people on this site that I have interacted with that it is their opinion also.  And if you look closer all of the people except myself who are on this thread also seem to be of that opinion to one degree or another. 

Whether or not your story archive has “pretty heavy traffic, judging by the read statistics”, doesn't change the fact that if you don't have new writing talent adding to your story pool the site will become just that, an archive.

When I posted these most recent posts to the Forum I looked around and noticed that there were only a handful of posts in the last 6 months, so your Forum is basically an Archive too.  I pretty much had to fight my way through the dust and cobwebs...  That's pretty much a sign of a dying site, not a healthy vibrant one.  If you believe otherwise you have your head in the sand.

As far as your comment, “The site is active, but in a different way than Fur Affinity or So Furry. I would say there is plenty of room for both. Since both of those sites already exist, there doesn't seem to be any need for us to be redundant rather than different.”  I never suggested that there isn't room for both types of sites.  People can have any type of site or club they want to have, no matter how pretentious they may be.  It's called freedom of association and is guaranteed in the US Bill of Rights Article 11.  I just suggested that you be honest about what this site is.  If you want it to be the “Porn-free Alternative to SoFurry and Fur Affinity”, then you should state that right up front.  Then writers wouldn't come on here in good faith (after being directed to the site by members) and be savaged and belittled by some of the prim self-righteous holier-than-thou Red Pen Wielders (still don't know exactly what they are, but terminology on this site is a beef for another day) for having adult content in their stories.  If you were honest you would just ban adult content completely, instead of luring writers in on false pretenses.


Title: Re: Authors Deserving Attention
Post by: Jacky on May 11, 2013, 04:24:01 PM
I don't know what you think you'll achieve by being unreasonable and attacking people personally. If you don't like it, why are you here? It was so long ago that you got a bad review on your work by one person who doesn't even come here any more, and you're still butthurt? Move on.


Title: Re: Authors Deserving Attention
Post by: Erkhyan on May 13, 2013, 08:28:00 AM
I’m actually looking for proof of the assertion that this site punishes people for including erotica in their writing. Admittedly my own stories aren’t very recent, but they do contain sex scenes (one of them begins with a sex scene), and no one really commented on these either way during their reviews.


Title: Re: Authors Deserving Attention
Post by: Sasya on May 16, 2013, 01:46:46 AM
At least the topic is producing discussion and clearing out some of the cobwebs.

I'm about a month away from publishing Theta.

No sex, but people seem to like it anyway.  ^.^

Of course, I've written some pretty darn raunchy stories, too... but they're on SoFurry. ;p

-Fox


Title: Re: Authors Deserving Attention
Post by: poisonpen on May 16, 2013, 02:01:32 AM
This response is to Jacky

First why do I have to hope to achieve anything?  This is exactly the problem with some of you on this site in a nutshell.  Not all of us that write are hoping to achieve anything except enjoyment from our stories and sharing them with those who also enjoy them.  And if you don’t enjoy them, then just please move on to something you do enjoy instead of trashing it because it isn’t to your taste.  My goal in writing fiction isn’t to get it published, if that happens that’s fine.  I have plenty of stuff published although you would have to look in scientific journals to find it.  I write fiction to live vicariously through the characters in the various worlds I have created in my head and to share them with anyone else who may also enjoy them.  I also find living vicariously through these characters to be very therapeutic and cathartic.
 
Many of the members (mostly the Red Pen Wielders) on this site remind me of the creative writing professors in my freshman year of college who made me ABSOLUTELY HATE writing fiction.  Most of them were failed hack wannabe writers that took all the joy out of writing.  It took 30 years and being inspired by Onyx Tao’s Cold Blood novel to get over the awful taste they left in my mouth and try my hand at creative writing again.  And to my surprise I found I REALLY enjoyed it.  An even bigger surprise was that more than a few furries out there actually enjoyed reading them.
 
I will not let the nattering nabobs of negativity on this site stop the joy I have rediscovered in writing, but it really bothers me that you guys are still out there trying to pigeon hole everyone into your own view of what writing should be.  Which is why I found Mr.Altivo’s comment, “Hence my advice to new writers: Don't use sex scenes as a crutch. Develop real, three dimensional characters. Sex is never essential to that, nor to an active plot line.” so incredibly distasteful and heavy handed.  Of course sex is “never essential” to character development or to an active plot line.  Neither are railroads... or space stations... or lycanthropy... or fishing trips...or fox hunts... or hippopteri or any number of activities, themes or characters that are the back drop for writing.  But neither are they or SEX exclusionary to character development or an active plot line.

If it was me, I would be happy that people are writing and enjoying it as opposed to worrying that the content of their story fit my narrow-minded idea of what content should be.  If they need help with grammar or spelling or need to learn to be more descriptive or learn to better relate their ideas you should help them with that.  What inspires an individual to write is a personal matter and is up to that person.  But that doesn’t seem to be the case with Mr. Altivo.  He ought to just go all the way (oops that sounds rather sexual and we know that isn’t kosher here) and just assign us each a writing project complete with scoring rubrics and deadlines.  Then I’ll feel like I’m 30 years younger and back in my enthusiasm numbing creative writing class.  This is exactly why I don’t take commissions.  I want to write what I want to write and how I want to write and when I want write.

As to your question as to why I’m here, the smart ass answer to that, and I am NOT above being a smart ass, would be that my parents had unprotected sex 54 years ago (Oops there goes that sex thing again).  Why am I here?  If you look at my first response to Mr. Moore’s original posting you will notice that it was a serious and thoughtful response to the apparent dislike of erotic material by the Admin and dreaded “Red Pen Wielders” of this site.  It wasn’t until I and anyone else who decides to have sex scenes in their writing were attacked by Mr. Altivo that I went into “attack mode”.
 
Then you bring up: “It was so long ago that you got a bad review on your work by one person who doesn't even come here any more, and you're still butthurt?”  Oh, you mean the one by that Red Pen Wielder that hacked and then hijacked my e-mail account that took a week for me to get back?  Do I hold a grudge over that?  OF COURSE I DO!  And I also hold a grudge about those Red Pen Wielders who defended the no talent little troll as a paragon of virtue.  But then it appears that you Red Pen Wielders always come to each other’s defense…  It all seems so incestuous.  Damn!  There I go again with the sex references, and incest isn't even one of the kinks I write about…  But that isn't what this was about.  I tried to start serious discussion at first, but it is obvious that difference of opinion isn't tolerated let alone accepted on this site.
 
And what exactly is a Red Pen Wielder?  I’m assuming it is some type of admin helper, but damn it sounds so incredibly sophomoric.  Or maybe something even more sinister, the term academic brown shirt comes to mind.  LOL (Don’t get your panties in a wad, that was meant as a joke, but I realize that a sense of humor here is pretty much completely lacking.)


Title: Re: Authors Deserving Attention
Post by: poisonpen on May 16, 2013, 02:17:03 AM
This is in response Erkhyan

I never asserted that writers got “punished” for writing sex scenes.  My point was that Admin and Red Pen Wielders tend to look down their noses at those who write sex scenes.  You have no further to look than this thread:

“As a reader and reviewer of furry lit (and non-lit) I see far too much stuff that exists solely for the supposed erotic content. Hence my advice to new writers: Don't use sex scenes as a crutch. Develop real, three dimensional characters. Sex is never essential to that, nor to an active plot line.

Very, very few of the writers who continue to garner respect years after their work appears in public are writers of erotica. In fact, the only ones that come to mind are noted for writing subliminal erotica or stories in which the erotic content is based on innuendo, inference, and things that take place behind the scenes.

That said, no, we have no ban on erotic content as such. But don't ask me personally to review it unless you want to feel teeth.”

That is about as blatant a condemnation as you can get, and from an Administrator at that.  It is meant to throw a wet blanket on those that post sex scenes on this site, but it isn't punishment.

You also state that:  “Admittedly my own stories aren’t very recent, but they do contain sex scenes (one of them begins with a sex scene), and no one really commented on these either way during their reviews.” 

As you say your stories aren't recent and maybe things have changed since that time.  Sites change and the people administering them get replaced so attitudes also change.  It just appears to me at this current time that Administrators and Red Pen Weilders attach a stigma attached to writing sex scenes on this site.  You have no further to look than this thread.


Title: Re: Authors Deserving Attention
Post by: poisonpen on May 16, 2013, 02:24:36 AM
Another defacto proof of the hostility toward those that have sex in their stories is the original post itself:

“Even on porn-heavy websites like Fur Affinity and SoFurry will you find authors that really are gifted. Erotic or not, some furs actually understand character development, plot, and the English language for that matter. And of course they receive little thanks or attention because FA is just one notch above Youtube for craptastic butchering of English.

So, here's your chance. What little-known authors in the fandom do you think deserve our attention and thanks? Links to their galleries/websites/profiles are of course appreciated!”

This was posted 10 months ago and there was NOT ONE PERSON on this site that thought enough of ANY writer that writes sex scenes to recommend anybody on this thread.  It sat dead for 10 months until I resurrected it.  I find that pretty damning in itself.  But go ahead and shoot the messenger...


Title: Re: Authors Deserving Attention
Post by: poisonpen on May 16, 2013, 03:58:28 AM
This is in response to Sasya's post

Congratulations on getting your story published.  If you want to write a story that has no sex to get mainstream publishing or just because it's what you WANT to write, I will be the first to congratulate you.  I wish you all the success with it.

As to your comment:

“Of course, I've written some pretty darn raunchy stories, too... but they're on SoFurry. ;p”

Just make sure they stay on SoFurry if you want to be respected on this site...


Title: Re: Authors Deserving Attention
Post by: Erkhyan on May 16, 2013, 10:24:18 AM
I fail to see why Altivo being an administrator means he has to change his stance as a reviewer. He’s had this opinion since well before I joined, he’s had it when I posted my stories years ago, and he still has it now. It’s his right, again, as a reviewer. Will you condemn me if I say that, as a reviewer, I will most likely never review heterosexual erotica or heavy dystopia, because I am likely to be biased against these?

Sites change, you say. But if anything, most of the current Red Pen Wielders are the same ones who were already active back when I posted my own stories. It’s the same regulars, with their own likes and dislikes, and besides Altivo, I don’t remember any of us voicing a dislike of sex in stories.

As for why the topic sat untouched for months… well, for my part, it is mostly because erotica writers I tend to follow elsewhere are already well-known on their own (think Kyell Gold, K.M. Hirosaki, Toonces, … ), and the only two who weren’t, I mentioned in another post with the same initial purpose as this one. (http://forum.furrag.com/index.php/topic,688.0.html) I'm even glad that the one I nominated who wasn’t a member ended up joining, even if only for a while. I would have added more names if I had found them, but I didn’t find any. Not because most stories I’ve read were full of sex, but because, sex or not, I’m generally pretty demanding when it comes to writing quality.


Title: Re: Authors Deserving Attention
Post by: Jacky on May 16, 2013, 06:09:39 PM
The "red pen wielder" moniker was for when there was a private critique group hosted here. That moved to AWRF, which as you know is now defunct, so the label doesn't mean a lot any more.

My goal when reviewing stories is only to help. I'm no writer, I just read what like to read. I never trash anyone's work, and if they get that impression then I have failed to achieve my goal. Now, I'll grant you, that particular review that you got was bad. To say it comes across as insensitive is an understatement. But that's just one review from one person, and judging by the disparaging attitude you have for this whole site, you've already made your mind up that his view = everyone's view. It's most certainly not.

P.S. I find it hard to believe that he hijacked your email account. And don't think for one second I'm defending him, by the way. I just severely doubt it.


Title: Re: Authors Deserving Attention
Post by: poisonpen on May 17, 2013, 01:16:11 AM
In regards to your statement:
“Will you condemn me if I say that, as a reviewer, I will most likely never review heterosexual erotica or heavy dystopia, because I am likely to be biased against these?”

 I have no problem with you stating that you will likely never review these types of stories, I WILL condemn you if you say there is no need for anyone to write stories containing these themes.  Which is EXACTLY what Mr. Altivo has done. 

I never claimed he has to change his stance as a reviewer because he is an Admin, anyone is entitled to their opinion no matter how wrong, pig headed or narrow minded they may be.  The point is he actively discourages people from putting sex scenes in their writing, which bolsters my point that among the Royalty on this site anyone that writes sex scenes in their novel is a low life second class citizen.  The fact that you so blindly come to his defense bolsters the impression that you Red Pen Wielders and Admin stick together no matter what.  LOL

Although as a reviewer I still think he is overstepping his bounds with his no sex stance.  As a reviewer you are supposed to base your critique on the value of the story, not on whether or not you like the fact that it has erotic content.  If you don't like stories with erotic content you should recuse yourself from judging it or judge it based on merit, not on whether you like porn or not.  For example I would have absolutely no interest in reading a lesbian love story, not that I have anything against lesbians but because it does absolutely nothing for me.  But I wouldn't review it and say it was a horrible story because it had lesbian sex scenes in it.  I also wouldn't tell them not to use lesbian sex scenes “as a crutch. Develop real, three dimensional characters. (lesbian) Sex is never essential to that, nor to an active plot line.” as Mr. Altivo is wont to do.  You CAN develop real three dimensional characters and active plot lines in stories that have lesbian sex scenes.  Plenty of mainstream writers have done so in fact.

As you can see this statement also demonstrates his faulty logic. The presence or absence of sex scenes in a story is completely independent of three dimensional characters and deep plot lines.   Sex scenes, three dimensional characters and active plot lines are not mutually exclusive.  So his statement is COMPLETELY wrong if you want to be technical about it.  That is not my opinion, that is FACT.   A skillful writer can have these things regardless of the content, a poor writer will not have them also regardless of the content.

And I believe in nearly every one of my posts I've asked what exactly is a Red Pen Wielder and no one has answered me.  I guess it's a big secret known only to Admin and to Red Pen Wielders...  LOL


Title: Re: Authors Deserving Attention
Post by: Jacky on May 17, 2013, 08:06:16 AM
And I believe in nearly every one of my posts I've asked what exactly is a Red Pen Wielder and no one has answered me.  I guess it's a big secret known only to Admin and to Red Pen Wielders...  LOL

I guess you missed my post telling you exactly what it is LOL


Title: Re: Authors Deserving Attention
Post by: Erkhyan on May 17, 2013, 08:23:12 AM
And I believe in nearly every one of my posts I've asked what exactly is a Red Pen Wielder and no one has answered me.  I guess it's a big secret known only to Admin and to Red Pen Wielders...  LOL
As Jacky mentioned, the post right before yours contains a concise yet complete answer to that question.
The "red pen wielder" moniker was for when there was a private critique group hosted here. That moved to AWRF, which as you know is now defunct, so the label doesn't mean a lot any more.



As for the rest… why is it difficult to believe that too many writers are using sex as a crutch? Yes, it’s possible to have three-dimensional characters and sex in the same story, but a lot of people are using the latter to compensate for the lack of a former. I even saw one story (which I admit I liked) that had interesting, nicely developed characters… which then turned into the most basic and stereotypical  “X fucks Y” scene in the last chapter, pretty much ignoring the intricacies of their relationship from earlier.

On the other side, I recently followed K.M. Hirosaki’s Shorts for Summer series, which had what I think is the largest spectrum of examples of the importance of sex in a story: there were several stories where the characters existed only for the sex, at least one story where the sex scene was integrated into the characters’ development, and one where the characters’ development was done during an extended sex scene. The first kind is wildly prevalent among furry erotica writers, the second is rare enough to be noticed, and the third… well, I applaud whoever manages to pull it off well.



I’m not a “literary” reviewer. I’m not out to correct the writer’s technical mistakes (beyond basic spelling and grammar, about which I am rather strict). I’ve  never even studied things like storytelling, narrative structures, or anything like that. I just consider myself as a demanding reader, and my reviews will always be meant to read that way: as the opinion of a reader.


Title: Re: Authors Deserving Attention
Post by: poisonpen on May 18, 2013, 01:30:37 AM
This is in response to Jacky

That was my bad on the Red Pen Weilder post. Yes I had missed it because I hadn't noticed that the thread had run to a second page so I didn't see it.  But it still took until the second page before anyone addressed the question.

In response to your statement:  “My goal when reviewing stories is only to help. I'm no writer, I just read what like to read. I never trash anyone's work, and if they get that impression then I have failed to achieve my goal.”

I will take you at you're word for that although you have never reviewed any of my work (not that I have asked or that I am asking you to, I have had enough reviews by Red Pen Wielders, thank you very much) and I haven't read any of your other reviews.  I have only just begun to get some other feedback from posting on this site and none of it has been technical just readers saying they really enjoyed the story or chapter.  On SoFurry most of the comment sections of my stories or chapters are almost as large as the stories.  We have a great time my comment sections and I get quite a bit of constructive criticism there which I appreciate.  I very rarely get testy with any of the commenters on SoFurry.  The only ones I fly off the handle on are ones that tell me that I shouldn't espouse the philosophies that I do in some of my chapters (I know it's hard to believe that there can be serious philosophical themes in stories that contain sex scenes, but despite the claims of Altivo, it can happen).  .   

Then you stated:  “Now, I'll grant you, that particular review that you got was bad. To say it comes across as insensitive is an understatement. But that's just one review from one person, and judging by the disparaging attitude you have for this whole site, you've already made your mind up that his view = everyone's view. It's most certainly not.”

And you are the first person on this site to actually say his review was inappropriate.  And to be brutally honest at least up to and including this point I have been given very little reason to believe it is not the view of the majority on this site.  I didn't come to this site because I needed a platform for my writing.  Although I am fairly new to writing I have a fairly large following on SoFurry, my stories have over a quarter million views so I really didn't need more exposure.  My stories there get more views in the first 2 days than they get here in a couple of years.  The reason I posted on here was because I was told by some of my SoFurry readers that I should post here because members were helpful and friendly, neither of which have I found to be true.  In the first year they were on here only two things happened, I was ignored or brutalized.  Which is why I haven't continued to post my two most popular series on this site, if readers wish to continue reading they can follow them on Sofurry. 

Then you finished with:  “P.S. I find it hard to believe that he hijacked your email account. And don't think for one second I'm defending him, by the way. I just severely doubt it.”

I see...  So you aren't defending him but you're calling me a liar? 


Title: Re: Authors Deserving Attention
Post by: poisonpen on May 18, 2013, 02:23:10 AM
This is in response to Erkhyan

You wrote:  “As for the rest… why is it difficult to believe that too many writers are using sex as a crutch? Yes, it’s possible to have three-dimensional characters and sex in the same story, but a lot of people are using the latter to compensate for the lack of a former. I even saw one story (which I admit I liked) that had interesting, nicely developed characters… which then turned into the most basic and stereotypical  “X fucks Y” scene in the last chapter, pretty much ignoring the intricacies of their relationship from earlier.”

First of all my main complaint wasn't with the “using sex as a crutch” statement.  It was the statement that followed it:

"Don't use sex scenes as a crutch. Develop real, three dimensional characters. Sex is never essential to that, nor to an active plot line."  That at the very least implies that you shouldn't use sex in stories.  Altivo followed this with:

"Very, very few of the writers who continue to garner respect years after their work appears in public are writers of erotica. In fact, the only ones that come to mind are noted for writing subliminal erotica or stories in which the erotic content is based on innuendo, inference, and things that take place behind the scenes."

So he comes right out and states that good writers don't write sex scenes.  And it comes off as very self-righteous and sanctimonious.  Which in my opinion seems to be the prevailing attitude of the "Royalty" on this site.

I try to write many of my stories so they would make sense and be worth reading even if the sex takes place behind closed doors (Although at times I write pure escapist erotica and I make no apologies for that.  There is a time and a place for all kinds of writing.).  I don't know how successful I am at that because as a beginning writer I realize I am a work in progress.  But I do work hard at improving my writing.

You continued with:  "On the other side, I recently followed K.M. Hirosaki’s Shorts for Summer series, which had what I think is the largest spectrum of examples of the importance of sex in a story: there were several stories where the characters existed only for the sex, at least one story where the sex scene was integrated into the characters’ development, and one where the characters’ development was done during an extended sex scene. The first kind is wildly prevalent among furry erotica writers, the second is rare enough to be noticed, and the third… well, I applaud whoever manages to pull it off well."

Then you obviously also disagree with Altivo then if you are reading furry erotica, because in his view the stuff shouldn't even exist.

I don't pretend to be as accomplished or polished a writer as Mr. Hirosaki.  I usually try to use sex to develop a bond between characters, although I will admit that sometimes it is just for fun.  But isn't that the way sex is in real life?  Hopefully I will get better at it, but I sure as hell am not going to stop writing sex scenes just to please his majesty Altivo.

I still find it amusing how you all come to each others defense.


Title: Re: Authors Deserving Attention
Post by: Altivo on May 18, 2013, 11:01:23 AM
And I find it amusing that you seem to have nothing to do with yourself other than act as a troll.

If you dislike this site so much, why are you here?


Title: Re: Authors Deserving Attention
Post by: poisonpen on May 18, 2013, 06:02:56 PM
A TROLL? :o  Such an accusation cuts me to the quick.  If I was trying to be a troll I would go to a site that at least has a live audience.  ROTFLMAO 

And I guess "seem" would be the operative word.  Even though I am terribly busy with the mayfly and caddis fly hatches in full swing, the bluegills just starting to get on the beds, taking care of my dogs and horses, my full time job and writing my own stories, 5 minutes here or there is not an extravagant amount of time to expend on such a worthy cause.

And I am so pleased that I have amused you.  I never thought I could provide such useful service to the Supreme Emperor and Grand Poobah of all things literary...   It must be a really taxing position with so much responsibility, I'm sure a little amusement will lighten the load.   I realize I don't have the talent or bloodline to be a Red Pen Wielder, but maybe I could be the Court Jester... 

Instead of questioning why I'm here you should be thankful I'm here.  My guess is that this is the most activity this forum has seen in years.  But my guess is that you only appreciate like minded people as subjects.


Title: Re: Authors Deserving Attention
Post by: Jacky on May 18, 2013, 06:33:36 PM
Compared to SoFurry, this site is a quiet backwater. It's less likely you'll get the volume of reviews here as you do there. Sorry you got a bad review (in all senses of the word), but some people actually like the reviews they get here. I guess you just got unlucky.

I'm not calling you a liar, I'm just saying I really doubt that he was the reason you lost control of your email account. I know him a bit, and if there's something he doesn't like, his usual strategy is to pretend it doesn't exist, rather than go after people.


Title: Re: Authors Deserving Attention
Post by: Erkhyan on May 18, 2013, 07:00:01 PM
Then you obviously also disagree with Altivo then if you are reading furry erotica, because in his view the stuff shouldn't even exist.
Yes, I disagree with his view, I’ve always disagreed with it, but I’ve never felt the urge to create a huge scandal about it. It all comes to acknowledging that we all have our likes and dislikes. I’m glad that my #1 dislikes (“shoot the shaggy dog” and grim-dark stories) are not as prominent in the furry fandom, but I can tell you that I feel as strongly about these as Altivo feels about sex scenes. I know many people disagree with my point of view (for example, judging by the number of people who liked the Star Wars: New Jedi Order series), yet I don’t feel the need to attack them for not agreeing with me.

I still find it amusing how you all come to each others defense.
… because we’ve never jumped to each other’s throats for having differing points of view, and actually like to maintain a generally friendly atmosphere? Contrary to what you might think, we’re not some feudal society here, with overlords and lowly commoners. If you get the reference, consider us rather as something like the Companions of Whiterun.


Title: Re: Authors Deserving Attention
Post by: poisonpen on May 18, 2013, 08:35:06 PM
This is in response to Jacky

Actually on SoFurry we don't get “reviews” we get “comments” which can be anywhere from one word like “great” to comments which are several pages long.  And to say you don't get the volume is a huge understatement.  I've had 7 “reviews” since I've been on this site while I've received 7012 “comments” on SoFurry. 

I never expected to get as many views here as on SoFurry, just the nature of the two sites and I understand that.  I just didn't expect it to be such a cliquish closed-minded group of people.  I expected that they would welcome new people in, but even before my “review” I never felt welcome here.  On the other hand the readers on SoFurry are much friendlier and made me feel like part of the family from the very first story I ever posted on it (which was ironically the one Reiter “reviewed”). 

Yes I guess I did get unlucky.  Just my luck to get my first review from a vindictive no-talent troll that has no business reviewing anybody.  I made it a point to read the stuff he has posted on this site and I would have been embarrassed to post it, and I'm just a beginner.

You say you “ know him a bit”, but you obviously don't know him well at all.  We went back and forth quite a bit on an e-mail account that I had set up just for that purpose, until he hinted that he had a surprise for me.  That was when the account that I use for Furrag was hijacked.  I'm sure he was quite amused.  If he was like you said he is I doubt he would have continued e-mailing back and forth half a dozen times.  I think you happened to see the public persona that he liked to project not the vindictive person (I had to stop my self from inserting a vulgarity there) that he really is.


Title: Re: Authors Deserving Attention
Post by: poisonpen on May 18, 2013, 09:09:43 PM
This is in response to Erkhyan

For one thing challenging someone's edict about what should and should not be written is not creating a huge scandal.  I guess the problem is we are not talking about the same thing.  You are saying that Altivo has a right to dislike sex scenes in writing.  I totally agree with that.  What I disagree with is him telling others that they shouldn't write them.  People should write what ever they damn well want without the Supreme Emperor and Grand Poobah of all things literary trying to dictate the content of their work.  People should write the stories in their hearts and not be constrained by the wishes of others.  He has every right to not read them, but in my opinion no business trying to keep them from being written.

The only people on SoFurry that I fly off the handle at are the ones that tell me I shouldn't write something because it disagrees with their philosophy on whatever.  And I go from being a nice loveable easy going writer to someone that bites their head off.  That's only happened 3 times in the 7012 comments I've received on SoFurry.

You wrote
“I know many people disagree with my point of view (for example, judging by the number of people who liked the Star Wars: New Jedi Order series), yet I don’t feel the need to attack them for not agreeing with me.”

My point is that you appear afraid to disagree with the Emperor.  It took me this long to actually get you to admit that you actually disagree with his view.  Again I am not attacking him for disliking erotic content, I am attacking him for trying to enforce his dislike of erotic content on others to prevent them from writing erotic content.  That is something I find abhorrent.  And I would find it abhorrent even if he was trying to keep people from writing stuff that I dislike.

You wrote
“because we’ve never jumped to each other’s throats for having differing points of view, and actually like to maintain a generally friendly atmosphere? Contrary to what you might think, we’re not some feudal society here, with overlords and lowly commoners. If you get the reference, consider us rather as something like the Companions of Whiterun. “

One thing I would never accuse this place of is maintaining a generally friendly atmosphere.  That is just completely foreign to my experience here.  That being said I still believe that this is like a feudal society, you just don't notice it when you are one of the Overlords;- }


Title: Re: Authors Deserving Attention
Post by: Sasya on May 19, 2013, 05:13:51 AM
Man, I wish I had 7012 comments on SoFurry.   :<  Either I need to write better, or I need to write more smut.  ^.^  Probably both.

Nobody on SoFurry has anything bad to say, but it's rare for anyone to have anything to say.  Generally, I think, that's why sites like this exist—to connect people who love to read (and write) with those who love to write (and read), in a format that encourages critique.  Granted I've managed to acquire only two critiques here on my story, but they were at least two very well-thought-out critiques.  SoFurry, on the other hand, has always seemed to me to largely cater to the fap audience.

Meh! ^.^

~Fox


Title: Re: Authors Deserving Attention
Post by: poisonpen on May 19, 2013, 07:06:43 AM
I have to disagree with you about it being rare for people to have anything to say on SoFurry.  My comment sections there are full of helpful comments although some are just the “great story” type, but even those are helpful because it lets you know that the stories are working.  If you would like to see what I mean by the comment sections here would be an example of a typical comment section in a  chapter far enough into my novel in progress Earth's New Masters to allow for a fair amount of comments  https://www.sofurry.com/view/235505 .  I'm NOT suggesting that you read the story  just scroll down to the end and check out the comment section.  If you want to you can click on any of the other chapters, for the most part they have the same amount of comments. 

It is one of the things I really love about SoFurry is the almost instant and abundant feedback when I post a story.  Even though my stories contain erotic content most of the comments are plot-centric not fap-centric.  I'll admit I have worked hard to cultivate a good audience by always responding to every comment that gets posted and have developed a good rapport with my audience.  But on this site there is no one to work with.  The only in depth comment I've received on this one was insulting and not helpful at all.


Title: Re: Authors Deserving Attention
Post by: Sasya on May 19, 2013, 04:36:09 PM
By contrast, I don't think I have any chapter on SoFurry with significantly more comments than my first: https://www.sofurry.com/view/245324

I'm not really sure why.  If there's something wrong with my writing, I'd hope someone would tell me... "insulting" or not.  Instead I've gotten little feedback, and only a sprinkling of comments on SoFurry... so it does very much go both ways.  Here, at least, I've had some meaningful conversations with various people about my story--as well as a fairly solid critique--but I do admit it's pretty dead.

I dunno.  Horses for courses? ~.^

-Fox


Title: Re: Authors Deserving Attention
Post by: poisonpen on May 19, 2013, 04:56:44 PM
I'm sorry that you don't seem to get much feedback from SF.  I haven't read your stuff (I don't have much time to read as much since I started writing myself) so I can't comment on your stories.  I know that when I post a story on SoFurry that I will spend AT LEAST that evening and the next evening just answering comments.  I've had no meaningful conversations about my writing since I've been on this site, well unless you consider the abusive critique that I got from one of the dreaded Red Pen Wielders.  This site was recommended to me by some of my readers on SF and I came here to see what it was like, and I have been disappointed from the get go.  If you are not part of the clique here at best you get ignored.  On the other hand on SoFurry I have quite a few of my readers that have become real on line friends.  One has even become my Mate/Boy Friend from being a fan of my writing. 

Pretty dead, ya think?  Although I have taken this dead topic with one post and turned it into a “Hot Topic” which is probably the most traffic this forum has had in well over a year.  *pats self on back while smirking*


Title: Re: Authors Deserving Attention
Post by: Altivo on May 19, 2013, 05:39:35 PM
There's nothing wrong with your writing that I could see, Sasya. I stopped reading because of my preferences in subject matter and limited time available, but that has nothing to do with the quality of the writing itself. Nor, as far as I can tell, would it make much difference to a wider audience. If anything, it should be popular I'd say.


Title: Re: Authors Deserving Attention
Post by: Erkhyan on May 22, 2013, 10:40:38 AM
I’ve never seen someone complain so much about not being able to integrate a clique, while at the same time introducing themselves to everyone in the clique by insulting them and throwing accusations at them, going to the point of pushing other newcomers away where none of them had any problems before.

I really have no idea what happened with you, poisonpen, and I’m starting not to care. You had a problem with one member of the site, and you decided to take it out on the rest of us, including those who started off neutral or even tried to be friendly. You don’t gather friends or allies by biting and kicking everyone around.

Oh, and for your accusation that I’m an "overlord"… I’ll have you check again. I’m no moderator, no administrator, my only label comes from a private critique group I ended up not taking part with. The only distinction I could claim is being a long-time regular user who managed not to start wars with regulars and newcomers alike, i.e. I considered everyone as part of the "clique" to begin with, found joy when newcomers became regulars, felt disappointment when they didn’t, and felt sadness when regulars stopped being regulars (and I still remember most of these).

Again, sorry if you feel like you’re being left out of the clique, but my introduction to you was you flinging hostility and accusations around, some of which I ended up catching when I tried to defuse the situation through discussion. I’ll be the first to admit that based on that first impression, I’m not quite surprised you didn’t get to become part of the clique.


Title: Re: Authors Deserving Attention
Post by: poisonpen on May 27, 2013, 02:27:18 AM
Whatever made you think I am complaining about wanting to be part of a clique?  I personally don't care for cliques, and that is as a member or as an outsider.  As for introducing myself to everyone in the clique by insulting them and throwing accusations, I introduced myself over 3 years ago and have been posting stories ever since.  For the first 3 years I was on here I didn't insult anyone or throw accusations around and where did it get me?  I was ignored which didn't really bother me and then had my intelligence and character assaulted in an attack review on the very first chapter of a fiction story that I had ever written. 

By a reviewer (a Red Pen Wielder like yourself, I believe that this was during the time period when your little private critique group or clique was in full swing) that cherry picked the worst story chapter I have posted on here.  Before he even gets started on the story he chides me for rating it “Mature” instead of “Erotic”.  Now I looked around for a criteria before I posted on what happens to constitute “Mature” and what constitutes “Erotic” before I posted on this site and I still haven't found it.  But this Ass Clown followed it up later in the review with “please rate your story correctly! Otherwise nice people will have to correct it for you, until they lose their niceness, and, well.”  Which really made the point to me that this site is sorely lacking in “nice people” and it has been reaffirmed time and time again in my dealings with them.  I guess that is unless you are part of the “Clique”

He then followed it up with, “Your piece is technically competent, but not much else.”  Which is essentially a rude way of saying “your writing is a piece of shit”.  Talk about a tactless little douchbag, but that was how I was introduced to your “Red Pen Wielders Clique.”

From there the condescending little Shithead had the nerve to tell me that I needed to expand my vocabulary.  Well I've got an IQ in the 150 range and my GRE score puts my vocabulary in the 92 percentile of people going for their Masters and PhDs, so I hardly think my vocabulary is lacking.  If he would have had the nerve to tell that to my face this former Marine would have beaten the shit out of him even at my advanced age.  But you Red Pen Wielders are so brave behind your computers and anonymity.

Then he goes on to tell me how “plain” my story is and what a terrible writer I am.  If this story chapter hadn't done so well on SoFurry or if I was someone with less confidence it probably would have made me quit writing.  Fortunately for me on SoFurry the 8 chapters of this story series have accumulated 41,116 views and 276 favorites. 

The very few valid points he had, which were few and far between, had already been corrected on subsequent works that were already posted here.  If he was really interested in helping me instead of putting me down he would have chosen a more recent work rather than the first chapter of the first story I had ever written.  And even with that, other than writing a scathing response to his review that eviscerated him, until just recently I had not as you say insulted or accused anyone of anything.  And even then I at first only attacked him until all of you Red Pen Wielders and Administrators and Global Moderators came to his defense.  But like I said you guys in the clique defend each other regardless of the circumstances.

That said each of my replies to long silent forum threads started out as a serious comment questioning how and why things are the way they are around here.  This site has real problems, it is pretty much just an archive now.  I asked serious questions and you Red Pen Wielders tried to shoot the messenger, so of course I defended myself. 

Please don't be so condescending Erkhyan you never cared, so don't claim you're "Starting not to care."  I've been a quiet nice guy on this site for 3 years, so much so that I'm sure you had no idea I have been a member posting stories for over 3 years.  If you had you wouldn't be getting your "first impression" of me after I had been on here for 3 years. 

As far as your comment “I’ll be the first to admit that based on that first impression, I’m not quite surprised you didn’t get to become part of the clique.”  I treat people the way they deserve to be treated.  On SoFurry I am one of the more open and cordial writers and I answer every comment that comes my way courteously.  We have tons of fun on my comment sections, which in addition to serious discussion of the stories also has much back and forth banter and is liberally sprinkled with humor (one of the things which is nearly nonexistent on this site where everyone takes themselves so seriously and has such an over blown sense of self importance).

Also in regard to your statement, “I considered everyone as part of the "clique" to begin with, found joy when newcomers became regulars, felt disappointment when they didn’t, and felt sadness when regulars stopped being regulars (and I still remember most of these).”  My guess it that on this site you have felt a lot more disappointment and sadness than joy.  There don't seem to be many regulars left on this site, but then given how people are treated here that is not surprising.


Title: Re: Authors Deserving Attention
Post by: Erkhyan on May 27, 2013, 12:32:56 PM
Okay, so you had a disagreeable run-in with a member of a group, who acted outside of the scope of a group, without telling anyone else in the group, and so you almost instantly upgraded your bad opinion to the whole group, if not the whole site. That’s good to know. Never mind that, again, the rules of the group included things like “let the other members know about the story first” and “no needlessly rude critique”. Never mind that the group barely (never?) had time to fulfill its actual mission before it was disbanded. Never mind that it never went past the planning stages when it was hosted on this site. Never mind that the “Red Pen Wielders” label was the only trace left of it for months if not years, until you raised such a ruckus about it that we quickly upgraded it from “meaningless label we don’t care about” to “actually a nuisance we’d better get rid of”.

Oh, and you’re kinda right: I noticed your name in the list of authors before, but never checked your stories. I only started noticing you when you became involved in the forums, because that’s mostly why I’m here. I already said it: I’m not really a reviewer (I didn’t even get to contribute to the private critique group while it was active), only a reader. I’m mostly interested in the discussions people can have besides reviewing, which is why you’ll notice that most of my posts were in the Barrag thread. I do care about most people who post on the forums. I even do my best to remember the names and personalities of whoever wrote more than half a dozen posts. I even kept contact with several people who left the site before, though I notice that none ever left because of the way they were treated here (unless it was behind-the-scenes stuff I was left out of): several left when the site was threatened with closure (which was conveniently when SoFurry was launched), others left when they realized they wouldn’t get thousands of views and hundreds of comments here (you keep mentioning your numbers from SoFurry, I guess several people did the same in their heads), others left due to circumstances unrelated to the site (I’m waving at Fictious and C_S here).

No, none of the regulars were ever treated badly (again, unless it was private stuff that the rest of us wouldn’t be aware of). Yes, I felt sadness, but I did mention that I’m still friendly (or at least, non-hostile acquaintances) with several people who left before.

And you mentioned anonymity, right? Well, I keep being told that I’m very careless with my identity online, so let’s go.

My name is Franck Rabeson, born, raised and living in Anosizato, Antananarivo, Madagascar. I’m one quarter French, one sixteenth Gujarati, and the rest of me is Merina Malagasy. I’m a translator by trade, though I used to work as a graphics designer for four years before. French and Merina Malagasy are my mother tongues, though I picked up enough English through the years to actually feel more comfortable writing in it than in both my mother tongues. When I was in school, I also got congratulations for getting a relatively good grades in Spanish despite the fact that my classmates studied it in six years, and while I did it in three (I love languages, what can I say?). I even got an almost perfect grade in English for my baccalauréat, the only higher grade I got was in Maths. Is that enough information? If not, you can head to my deviantART account (http://erkhyan.deviantart.com) and actually get my house’s precise geographical coordinates from the signature I use there. Let it be said that I actually hate it when people say that my opinions only exist because I don’t dare sign them by my own name.


Title: Re: Authors Deserving Attention
Post by: Altivo on May 27, 2013, 02:00:02 PM
Erkhyan is correct. Despite your repeated accusations, none of the currently active "clique" as you choose to call it have ever given any "bad reviews" or offered anything more than constructive criticism. The "Red Pen Wielder" thing (which was a title selected rather against my suggestions) was part of an experiment that never really went anywhere. We eliminated the references since you were so abrasive about it.

None of us is "hiding behind anonymity" either. All you have to do is ask Google to find my legal name and probably my residence address and current employer. My technical publications are all entered under my legal name or the name of the employer current at the time of writing, and as such are probably of little interest to a furry audience. Consequently I have used Altivo Overo as a furry pseudonym, and that's a name by which I was known in furry circles online for a number of years before I published anything.

I won't go into academic qualifications or work experience here because I suspect you'll just call it "snobbery." I'll just say that I have many years of experience as a librarian, an educator, and in computer-related occupations. I have not ever given a "bad review" on Furrag, and though I make my preferences in fiction clear I don't try to enforce them on anyone. If anything was ever censored here, it was before my time as a moderator. That would have to be in a time period covering a year or two back around 2008 or earlier when I wasn't privy to all the actions taken by administrators of this system.

The only things we have deleted either from the main fiction site or these forums have been obvious and off-topic commercial spam. As Erkyhan and Jacky have pointed out repeatedly, you had a negative experience with an individual who is no longer active here, and who acted only on his own behalf and not as any kind of official representative. Projecting your negativity onto all of us is inappropriate, and I don't understand why you are making such an issue of it now, years after the fact.


Title: Re: Authors Deserving Attention
Post by: poisonpen on May 27, 2013, 05:31:59 PM
This is in response to Erkhyan

No I didn't instantly upgrade my “bad opinion” to the whole group.  I waited about 2 years to do that.  It wasn't until I noticed that time after time Moderators and Red Pen Wielders defended the little douchbag that I upgraded my “bad opinion” to the whole group.  I have no idea what all your criteria and protocols were for your little group and whether or not Reiter followed them.  I do know that I have 23 story posts here and none of the other Red Pen Wielders has bothered to give me a critique on them (again not that I'm complaining, one critique by a Red Pen Wielder is one too many).  I have had 6 other one to two sentence “reviews” (3 of them by the same reader) all of them positive and all of them by readers that have been on here a year or less.  So if you ask me why I stay if I hate it so much it's because there are actually some nice people on here that enjoy my writing, they just don't happen to be in the power structure here.  I also no longer post new chapters to my 3 series here, if people like them and want to follow them further they can make a SoFurry account and read them there.

I guess you didn't even notice me there until recently.  I guess you weren't on the thread when they all had such glowing things to say about the little twerp (I'm running out of things to call him without breaking into *&&^$%#@).

As far as mentioning my numbers from SoFurry it was mainly to show how ridiculous and mean-spirited Reiter's contention that my story had absolutely no redeeming qualities about it.  If it was totally worthless it wouldn't have gotten that many views and favorites.  Those are pretty high numbers even for a site like SF.

How do you know they weren't treated badly behind-the-scenes?  The dirtbag and I went at it hot and heavy behind-the-scenes in private e-mail until he decided to hack and hijack my e-mail account.  But Jacky insists that I am lying about this, another case Red Pen Wielders or should I say the “clique formerly known as Red Pen Wielders” of blindly sticking up for each other.

Seems I've hit a nerve here.  LOL  As far as posting your own name here, that's a huge mistake.  You don't have anything to fear from me but as I said I've already had one e-mail account hijacked by a dirtbag on this site.  I'm sure if Reiter would have had my real name he would have already drained my bank account.  Actually my point was that Reiter wouldn't have had the balls to say what he said to my face, well at least without that face ending up bloody.  And since you claim that you haven't posted any critiques (and I have no reason to doubt that you are being truthful) this really may not pertain to you, but it's real easy to talk big and tell someone their writing is COMPLETELY without merit when you are locked in your mother's basement typing on your computer.


Title: Re: Authors Deserving Attention
Post by: poisonpen on May 27, 2013, 05:35:34 PM
This is in response to Altivo

I have no idea what kind of reviews the “currently active “Clique”” has given, I only know of the one I received.  You should have pushed harder to have them not use the “Red Pen Wielder” title.  First it is incredibly sophomoric, my “poisonpen” was a response to point it out by being just as sophomoric.  My guess is it also gave them a feeling of entitlement and empowerment to go out and be abusive.  And yes I noticed that you had eliminated it and I have already gloated over my victory!  LOL

And no I would never consider achievement and qualifications to be snobbery.  What I do consider snobbery is to use your position to try to influence people from trying to write what is in their hearts. I never said that there was direct censorship on this site.  There are indirect ways of censoring things on a site, such as an Administrator stating that there is never any reason for a writer to use sex in a story, or that no writers that achieve long term success ever use sex in their writing.  The title carries weight and when things like that are said by someone in a position of power it throws a dampening effect on creativity.  Maybe I'm a little touchy when it comes to people who throw cold water on creativity. The creative writing instructors that I had in my freshman classes in college did just that. All the way to the point that I never wrote any fiction for 30 years.  And there are more than a few here that give me that same vibe.  And that is outside of “he who must not be named” who I have had my issues with.

I just think that people writing about things that interest them or that they have a passion for is what eventually will make them into good writers.  If that included writing things with erotic content then that's what they should write.  Maybe after they get it out of their system and still have a passion for creative writing then they will write something more to your liking.

I have never claimed you have deleted anything from this site, all I have claimed is that the attitude about Erotica has turned those that write it into second class citizens on this site.  

And as I have pointed out repeatedly, I let that review go until I relatively recently noticed the Anthropomorphic Writers and Readers Foundation on FA (on one of the rare occasions I checked my account there) and noticed that Reiter was a moderator or some such authority.  I also notice a thread about it in the forums here on FurRag.  When I pointed out a few things the rest of the “Clique” of course rallied around their comrade in arms.  If I took that to mean that they are all like minded people then I don't know how I can be blamed for that.

But you are wrong when you claim he “acted only on his own behalf and not as any kind of official representative”. He was given a title of Red Pen Wielder as sanctioned by this site which would appear to give him standing as an official representative of this site.  And as such it would seem that the site has some responsibility to see that those rules are followed.  

And when it was pointed out that he abused this “authority” it seems all of his fellow “Red Pen Wielders” came out to back him up.  That's where my beef lies.  


Title: Re: Authors Deserving Attention
Post by: Erkhyan on May 27, 2013, 06:57:17 PM
You say you don’t know the rules of the critique group. Well, I already gave you the ones that were pertinent to outsiders. The rest were stuff about the number of reviews and critiques one had to write to remain in the group. Nothing more, nothing less than that.

Oh, and the whole Red Pen Wielders thing? It was never a title to begin with. It was just because we needed to create a group to let the forum know who could access the section of the forum dedicated to the private group. It was a technical thing. Adding a label to the profiles of the group’s members was just a way for us to recognize each other as members of said group. You keep assuming that the group was endorsed by the site, rather than merely hosted. There was never any penalty assigned for not being a member of the group, no privilege or authority given for being a member (except for a label in our profiles and access to the private forum), no big change to the site’s functions when the group was started, no big changes when it became inactive, and still no big change when your continuous complaints finally pushed us to delete it (which, I assure you, is almost as worthy of gloating as getting someone to get finally rid of old cobweb-covered furniture forgotten in the attic). You can’t blame FurRag for hosting the Red Pen Wielders any more than you’d blame Fur Affinity or SoFurry for hosting the dozens of groups that exist on both sites.

Another bit of honesty: I didn’t even know until your last two posts that your problems were with Reiter. I suspected, but didn’t know, because I guess you assumed that we all communicate behind the scenes and know everything about everyone. My first interaction with you came after you launched what I considered an undeserved verbal attack on Altivo for holding a set of opinions that conflicted with your own. Will you blame me for defending someone I’ve interacted with for years, whom I’ve never witnessed treating anyone unfairly? I felt you were attacking him for holding the title of forum administrator, when all his title entails is keeping the site technically up and running, and kicking out the occasional spambot. He never had the authority to enforce his views, no more than the rest of us have, but he has every right to make them known. That is why I defended Altivo… and that is why I’ll ask you to re-read my posts again and tell me where I could have been defending Reiter blindly. Even the part where you say the other members heaped blind praise on him sounds to me more like people trying to diplomatically tell you that our interactions with him were friendly enough (or at least, not hostile) and that we had no idea what you were going on about because most of us were out of the loop about your problems.

Lastly, my identity has been pretty open for the eight years I’ve been active online. Mistake or not, I stand by my principle that my pen name and online handles are supposed to be only alternative names I’d like to be known as, and not an anonymous screen to hide behind.


Title: Re: Authors Deserving Attention
Post by: poisonpen on May 27, 2013, 10:11:18 PM
In response to Erkhyan

It seems like Reiter never bothered to follow any of those rules and your group obviously didn't police itself.

I guess I see things differently.  When the site gives you a “title” right underneath your screen name it is endorsing it.  My guess is if something like that were to go to a court of law the court would consider that an endorsement.  It gives the members so titled gravitas and de facto prestige.  What makes it seem even more like a title is that it is placed exactly where Moderator and Administrator are placed. Most of us newbies and other members that are not members of the RPW would have no reason to know that it is not a title and members could and did try to use it to intimidate us Newbies (well at least one did).  Fortunately I don't intimidate easily and I told him to shove it up his ass.

As far as my gloating, losing your “title” may not be a big thing to you, but I'm sure it is a major blow to some of your brothers-in-arms.  LOL

My guess is you never knew my problem was with Reiter since you weren't on the particular thread where I came out after him, the one where everyone stuck up for him.  I mentioned him in a response to Jacky since he knew exactly who I was talking about and seems somewhat of a Butt Buddy with Reiter.  Since everyone seemed to think Reiter was a saint I figured it was mostly counterproductive mentioning his hallowed name.

I guess that I didn't consider my “attack” on Altivo undeserved, I considered it a counterattack.  When he wrote: “Very, very few of the writers who continue to garner respect years after their work appears in public are writers of erotica. In fact, the only ones that come to mind are noted for writing subliminal erotica or stories in which the erotic content is based on innuendo, inference, and things that take place behind the scenes.

That said, no, we have no ban on erotic content as such. But don't ask me personally to review it unless you want to feel teeth.”


I look at that and see it as a direct attack on anyone who writes sex scenes and therefore an indirect attack on me.  Basically he is saying that anyone who writes sex scenes will never amount to a hill of beans.  I find that highly offensive.  And his statement about biting if he was asked to personally review it came much too close to the attitude of Reiter to just let it slide by without comment.

Again, and I have repeated this several times, I don't care if he doesn't prefer to read Erotica, that is his prerogative but I feel he has absolutely no right to tell others not to write it.  Especially when he has Administrator emblazoned under his name.  If he wants to say that he refuses to read or review any erotica I have no problem with that, it's when he says that I or others shouldn't write it then that goes from being an opinion to a directive.  It seems we happen to be stuck on a matter of semantics.

I never said you defended Reiter, you weren't on that particular thread.  There were plenty of others there that genuflected before St. Reiter.  But all of you have come to each others aid on this thread. Still I think you need to gather up a few more of the members formerly known as Red Pen Wielders to take on a newbie.  Especially one with poison in his pen.  Poison > Red Ink...  LOL


Title: Re: Authors Deserving Attention
Post by: Jacky on May 28, 2013, 10:51:27 PM
*sigh* Not one of us has defended Reiter. I certainly didn't, and wouldn't. I even told you the review he wrote was bad. I dunno why I'm typing this really; I said it all in my first post. You're still mad at him but you can't get at him (because he's probably ignoring you), so you come here instead, inventing reasons to stir up trouble because for some reason you're still unable to control your anger at receiving one dumb review three years ago. If it bothers you that much, well...maybe you should ask yourself why.


Title: Re: Authors Deserving Attention
Post by: poisonpen on May 30, 2013, 01:32:58 AM
I loved the BIG dramatic sigh.  It's classic and oh so stereotypical.  LOL 

Actually you have defended him and continue to in this post.  You are doing it when you state "You're still mad at him but you can't get at him (because he's probably ignoring you)".   Actually I'm the one that is ignoring him, I stopped contacting him when he hijacked my account.  We went back and forth trading insults until then.  He sure as hell didn't ignore me.  I even posted part of one of his e-mails on one of the posts on this forum.  He actually had the last word.  I usually don't let anyone have the last word, but when he fucked with my e-mail account that I use for SoFurry (and also Furrag but that didn't weigh much on my mind) I decided it just wasn't worth it.  I mean that is my link to a REAL furry site, one that actually has more than 7 active members.  I need the feedback I get on my stories on SoFurry plus I need to keep in contact with all my friends and fans, (I found it amusing that one of my readers actually started a fan club) so I couldn't have that happening again.  I'm surprised your Butt Buddy didn't tell you that he got the last word in one of your pillow talk sessions.  Although it seems there is a lot more that you don't know about him than you think.

Yes you even told me "the review he wrote was bad", but then you went and told Gallowsglass that it was just a review that didn't kiss my ass.  Those are two VERY different things.  And why did you have to go and attack me there. I was only confirming what he already observed about the forums, although I did put a little humor in it.  I keep forgetting that humor is forbidden here too.  You're the one that brought up the bad review there, I didn't until I had to defend myself.  In fact it seems that in all the threads that you are always the first one to bring it up.   

In the this thread you were the first to bring it up (http://forum.furrag.com/index.php/topic,938.0.html).  We had been no where near that topic until you posted, "I don't know what you think you'll achieve by being unreasonable and attacking people personally. If you don't like it, why are you here? It was so long ago that you got a bad review on your work by one person who doesn't even come here any more, and you're still butthurt? Move on."  So it seems like if anyone is fixated on that review it appears to be you.  LOL

Yes I am still mad at him. I'm Italian, for us holding grudges is a birthright and an art form, but that actually has nothing to do with any of the original posts I've made.  You're the one that keeps re-introducing it.  None of my posts started out having anything to do with "he who must not be named".  I made legitimate posts on here until all of you RPWs, well at least the few that still actually check the forums, got all butt hurt that someone isn't towing the company line.  I can't help it if this site has so many shortcomings.  All the rest of you have your heads up your ass and won't admit there are serious problems with this dying site.

And as far as me being "unable to control your anger at receiving one dumb review three years ago", I have not said one thing out of anger.  LOL  How can I possibly be angry when I'm having so much fun!  They should turn tweaking pretentious pseudo-intellectual snobs into an Olympic sport or at least a made for TV event.  Maybe I could bring home the gold... 

PS Just looking at your avatar, you definitely look the part of the pretentious pseudo-intellectual snobs ;)


Title: Re: Authors Deserving Attention
Post by: Jacky on May 30, 2013, 08:16:59 AM
Actually you have defended him and continue to in this post.  You are doing it when you state "You're still mad at him but you can't get at him (because he's probably ignoring you)".

How is that me defending him? What kind of logic exists on your planet? I actually really dislike the guy. Believe me, I wouldn't defend him. But telling you that is like banging my head on a brick wall. No matter what evidence I give you, you always come back and assert you're right, so it's kind of pointless.

Actually I'm the one that is ignoring him, I stopped contacting him when he hijacked my account.  We went back and forth trading insults until then.  He sure as hell didn't ignore me.  I even posted part of one of his e-mails on one of the posts on this forum.  He actually had the last word.  I usually don't let anyone have the last word, but when he fucked with my e-mail account that I use for SoFurry (and also Furrag but that didn't weigh much on my mind) I decided it just wasn't worth it. 

Yeah I still don't believe you about this hijacking stuff, but if you have proof I'll gladly admit you're right. And by proof I mean you could show it to Judge Judy - accepting that she wouldn't look at trivial crap like this - and she'd agree that it was him.

Yes you even told me "the review he wrote was bad", but then you went and told Gallowsglass that it was just a review that didn't kiss my ass.  Those are two VERY different things.


Nope. Pretty compatible ideas actually.

And why did you have to go and attack me there. I was only confirming what he already observed about the forums, although I did put a little humor in it.

Because you were badmouthing the site to a new user under the guise of ""humor"" so I told him how it really was.

In the this thread you were the first to bring it up (http://forum.furrag.com/index.php/topic,938.0.html).  We had been no where near that topic until you posted, "I don't know what you think you'll achieve by being unreasonable and attacking people personally. If you don't like it, why are you here? It was so long ago that you got a bad review on your work by one person who doesn't even come here any more, and you're still butthurt? Move on."  So it seems like if anyone is fixated on that review it appears to be you.  LOL

That's the sole reason you're here though LOL

Yes I am still mad at him. I'm Italian, for us holding grudges is a birthright and an art form, but that actually has nothing to do with any of the original posts I've made.

See above.

PS Just looking at your avatar, you definitely look the part of the pretentious pseudo-intellectual snobs ;)

Huh? It's a fox...now you really lost me. Is that fact that he's wearing glasses an indication that I'm pretentious? *sigh* Yep, you really do make me sigh that much.


Title: Re: Authors Deserving Attention
Post by: poisonpen on June 01, 2013, 12:44:49 AM
This is beginning to get complicated so we have to color code
My original statement
Your response (in red in honor of the Red Pen Wielders
My reply in a nice poisonous green



Actually you have defended him and continue to in this post.  You are doing it when you state "You're still mad at him but you can't get at him (because he's probably ignoring you)".

How is that me defending him? What kind of logic exists on your planet? I actually really dislike the guy. Believe me, I wouldn't defend him. But telling you that is like banging my head on a brick wall. No matter what evidence I give you, you always come back and assert you're right, so it's kind of pointless.

Obviously we live on very different planets, or at least alternate realities.

If you do now actually dislike your former Butt Buddy (although with your responses I truly doubt it) then we have exactly one thing in common.  You have given me no evidence other than insisting you don't defend him.  Yet you keep defending him by insisting that he would take the high road and ignore me.  That IS defending him by any definition of the word. Well I turned the tables on him and REALLY pissed him off.  He likes to show people up but the vindictive little bastard really hates being exposed for the no talent blowhard that he really is.  It was a really interesting pissing match until he resorted to hacking my account. But that's the other way you defend him, over and over and over and over...

Maybe if you keep banging your head against that brick wall it will knock some sense into it.  I doubt it though, I think your head is more solid than any brick wall.  It would probably help if you take your glasses off first, just a little advice since you don't seem terribly bright.  Although maybe on your planet the laws of physics don't apply like they do in our world. Are you sure you don't live in the land of Loony Tunes?


Actually I'm the one that is ignoring him, I stopped contacting him when he hijacked my account.  We went back and forth trading insults until then.  He sure as hell didn't ignore me.  I even posted part of one of his e-mails on one of the posts on this forum.  He actually had the last word.  I usually don't let anyone have the last word, but when he fucked with my e-mail account that I use for SoFurry (and also Furrag but that didn't weigh much on my mind) I decided it just wasn't worth it.

Yeah I still don't believe you about this hijacking stuff, but if you have proof I'll gladly admit you're right. And by proof I mean you could show it to Judge Judy - accepting that she wouldn't look at trivial crap like this - and she'd agree that it was him.

All the proof I need is that he told me he had a surprise for me and when I tried to open my SoFurry/FurRag e-mail account it wouldn't open.  I had to collect all kinds of e-mails from my friends and fans to demonstrate that it was actually my account.  It took over a week.  As far as proving it to Judge Judy, I don't know who that is so I have no idea if it lives up to her standards.  Is she god or something that we need to meet her standards?  I don't have any hacker type friends that I could get to go in and get "evidence" on who hacked my account.  If I would have known that I needed proof to convince you that it happened, I'm sure I would have hired someone no matter what the cost to get enough evidence for your satisfaction.  NOT  

Obviously you feel that he is such a paragon of virtue that he would never stoop to such a heinous thing.  That IS defending him.  I personally think the little parasite would sink to anything he can get away with, and I'm beginning to feel the same about you.    


Yes you even told me "the review he wrote was bad", but then you went and told Gallowsglass that it was just a review that didn't kiss my ass.  Those are two VERY different things.


Nope. Pretty compatible ideas actually.

I guess that demonstrates your lack of mastery of the English language. Just curious is English a second language to you, if so that would explain your total lack of comprehension.   A review that didn't kiss my ass would suggest a review that didn't go out of it's way to flatter me, in other words it implies a neutral review, not positive nor negative. There was nothing neutral about his review as you have stated in other places on this forum.   But such subtleties are obviously beyond the boundaries of your extremely limited intellect. Probably another reason that you stay here rather than venture out onto one of the REAL furry sites, you don't feel quite so outclassed here.  


And why did you have to go and attack me there. I was only confirming what he already observed about the forums, although I did put a little humor in it.

Because you were badmouthing the site to a new user under the guise of ""humor"" so I told him how it really was.

All I did was verify what he already knew.  I pretty much told him the exact same thing you told him.  But it seems you have as much of a hardon for me as Reiter does.. If I was truly being honest I would have told him if he wanted views and feedback he should post his stories on SoFurry.  That also wouldn't have been "badmouthing the site" it would have been an honest assessment of what he should do to advance his goal of becoming a writer.  Whatever this site may have started out as, it is now basically a story archive with very few active members and almost no meaningful feedback.  And the forum is an even less vibrant place.  There are only about 5 people that still come here: you, Erkhyan, Altivo, Sasya and of course the STAR of the forums, ME *sarcastically takes bow*.  If I wasn't here this place would be completely dead.  I think you, Altivo and Erkhyan have chased away anyone that isn't in lockstep with your views.


In the this thread you were the first to bring it up (http://forum.furrag.com/index.php/topic,938.0.html).  We had been no where near that topic until you posted, "I don't know what you think you'll achieve by being unreasonable and attacking people personally. If you don't like it, why are you here? It was so long ago that you got a bad review on your work by one person who doesn't even come here any more, and you're still butthurt? Move on."  So it seems like if anyone is fixated on that review it appears to be you.  LOL

That's the sole reason you're here though LOL

My 23 story posts on this site prove that you again have your head planted firmly up your ass.  But I would expect nothing less from one of the former Red Pen Wielders.  I still post stories on this site on a semi-regular basis (not as often as I post to SoFurry, but I like to spend more time in the major leagues than down here in the bush leagues) so that is my main reason for still being here.  My guess is that I've actually posted more stuff here than you and Erkhyan combined, so maybe you should ask yourself if the sole reason you're here is to attack me.  LOL

But I will admit that part of the fun of being here is to bust the balls of the pretentious pseudo-intellectual snobs that crawl out from under their rocks when I come on the forums...  Which again has nothing to do with Reiter and his review.  At this point it has a lot more to do with you and your ilk.  



Yes I am still mad at him. I'm Italian, for us holding grudges is a birthright and an art form, but that actually has nothing to do with any of the original posts I've made.

See above.

Ditto


PS Just looking at your avatar, you definitely look the part of the pretentious pseudo-intellectual snobs

Huh? It's a fox...now you really lost me. Is that fact that he's wearing glasses an indication that I'm pretentious? *sigh* Yep, you really do make me sigh that much.

The fact that he has glasses and is leaning back with a smug, pretentious self-satisfied grin on his muzzle would suggest that.  I guess your eye for art is just as bad as your eye for literature.  I'll bet you have a tin ear when it comes to music too.  Is there ANYTHING at all that you do well?  Well you are a fox... and we all know what they are talented at doing... But we can't mention that sex stuff here on this site...  LOL


Title: Re: Authors Deserving Attention
Post by: poisonpen on June 01, 2013, 12:49:04 AM
Another perfect example of the bias against erotic content on this site is exemplified by this post http://forum.furrag.com/index.php/topic,533.msg0.html#new


Title: Re: Authors Deserving Attention
Post by: Jacky on June 01, 2013, 01:26:18 AM
Hehe, you are funny. You're right, all we have in common is that we think Reiter is an asswipe. But I suspect I'm starting to sully the forums now, so I'll bow out. I'll miss arguing with you~


Title: Re: Authors Deserving Attention
Post by: poisonpen on June 01, 2013, 11:33:45 AM
*Raises Arms In Victory as he takes a victory lap*

Once again Poison>Red Ink

I don't see why you're worrying about sullying the forums, there's no one here to see it.  Which raises the philosophical question, if a fox sullies the forums and there is no one there to read it, does anybody really give a damn...


Title: Re: Authors Deserving Attention
Post by: Altivo on June 01, 2013, 01:43:03 PM
Sorry, no. You've won nothing unless it's a certificate of validation for being a gadfly and a troll.

You have now fully admitted that your only reason for being here was to stir up trouble and irritate people.


Title: Re: Authors Deserving Attention
Post by: poisonpen on June 01, 2013, 06:33:27 PM
I KNEW IT!  I could sense the heavy hand of the Supreme Emperor and Grand Poobah of all things literary.  I didn't think Jacky would have stopped without being called off by his Overlord...  ROTFLMFAO

A Troll?  Heavens NO!  I'm much too clever to be a troll, trolls are stupid and slow witted.  At least in all the stories I've read about them they are.  But I've never met one in real life so maybe I'm rushing to judgment.  But that too would help me fit in on this site.  

Hmmm...  A gadfly...  I'll have to think about that...  Maybe something similar but sent by Calliope instead of Hera to herd this site back into line.  See I even know classical mythology so I can act pretentious too!  Does that mean I can be a Red Pen Wielder?  Oh I forgot, I eradicated the Red Pen Wielders.  LOL (Raises arms in Victory again!  Man I haven't raised my arms in victory so often since back when I was kicking ass in Track and Cross Country back in college.)

I have admitted no such thing.  I thought with you being such an accomplished writer and a librarian to boot you would have much better comprehension skills than Jacky.  Maybe it's just senility settling in on you so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.  I'll try to explain it to you s  l  o  o  o  l  y so MAYBE you'll be able to understand (but I'm not counting on it).  

Jacky
“That's the sole reason you're here though LOL”

Poisonpen (That would be me, just wanted to make sure you are still following this)
“My 23 story posts on this site prove that you again have your head planted firmly up your ass.  But I would expect nothing less from one of the former Red Pen Wielders.  I still post stories on this site on a semi-regular basis (not as often as I post to SoFurry, but I like to spend more time in the major leagues than down here in the bush leagues) so that is my main reason for still being here.  My guess is that I've actually posted more stuff here than you and Erkhyan combined, so maybe you should ask yourself if the sole reason you're here is to attack me.  LOL

But I will admit that part of the fun of being here is to bust the balls of the pretentious pseudo-intellectual snobs that crawl out from under their rocks when I come on the forums...  Which again has nothing to do with Reiter and his review.  At this point it has a lot more to do with you and your ilk.”


If you parse my statement, I claim my MAIN reason for being on this site is “my 23 story posts on this site”.  I stated that very clearly so your statement “You have now fully admitted that your only reason for being here was to stir up trouble and irritate people” is a blatant misrepresentation of the facts.  (Damn I gotta be careful I'm starting to sound like a lawyer.)  

I then go on to add a secondary reason (secondary means it is of lower importance than the MAIN reason.  Am I going slow enough for you?) of  “But I will admit that part of the fun of being here is to bust the balls of the pretentious pseudo-intellectual snobs that crawl out from under their rocks when I come on the forums...”  

Now you may believe that the secondary reason is the primary one (you would be wrong, but you're used to that by now) but your statement was that I “have now fully admitted that (my) only reason for being here was to stir up trouble and irritate people.”  And I most certainly have NOT admitted any such thing.  Your claim is FACTUALLY WRONG! I think even someone as obtuse as an Administrator can see that.

And while I DO enjoy busting “the balls of the pretentious pseudo-intellectual snobs that crawl out from under their rocks” I don't enjoy it anywhere near as much as I enjoy discussing stories (mine and the stories of others that I have read) in the comment sections of SoFurry.  But it seems that this site has nothing even remotely resembling it, so I have to settle for ball busting.  But I guess you have to settle for that when you're in the bush leagues.


Title: Re: Authors Deserving Attention
Post by: Altivo on June 01, 2013, 09:53:09 PM
Despite all your criticism of everyone else associated with this site, you are by far the most obnoxious person who has ever been here.

No, I did not "call Jacky off." I've been remaining quiet hoping you'd get bored and go away. Now, like Jacky, I'm done with you. You're like some politicians, you can't hear what anyone else says because you're so busy with your own obsessions. Well, you can obsess by yourself now as far as I'm concerned.


Title: Re: Authors Deserving Attention
Post by: poisonpen on June 02, 2013, 03:22:47 AM
*Holds up Most Obnoxious Trophy.  Does Victory Dance.*

I always try to be the very best at what I do, so being "by far the most obnoxious person who has ever been here" is quite the accomplishment considering how many obnoxious people have been here.

Au contraire mon ami.  I've heard everything the three of you have had to say.  I just find it to be highly inaccurate and I have to continue to point out your lapses in logic.  Even to the point of having to point out that you haven't “been remaining quiet hoping you'd get bored and go away.”  You keep coming back to stir the pot just when things are quieting down.  Are you sure you're not the Troll?


Title: Re: Authors Deserving Attention
Post by: Erkhyan on June 02, 2013, 10:44:11 AM
And so in an attempt to prove that you’re not the troll, you have decided to write in the most eye-hurting color available, while delighting in managing three decidedly un-trollish feats:
– insult the regulars
– scare away the newcomers
– and lastly, declare war on a group based on a member who left years ago

Times when I wish we really were the overlords you said we were. Less than thirty years ago, my country’s leader had a kung-fu compound razed and many of its members shot for much less than what you’ve been up to. Clearly, evil overlordship is losing its fangs.


Title: Re: Authors Deserving Attention
Post by: poisonpen on June 02, 2013, 04:13:20 PM
Again you guys keep ascribing actions and motives to me that I have never claimed.  You claim that I am attempting “to prove that (I'm) not the troll”.  I am attempting no such thing.  My point is to punch holes in all the faulty arguments and lapses in logic that you Red Pen Wielders, oops make that FORMER Red Pen Wielders (Pats self on back) keep throwing out there.  Maybe the problem is you are all English majors and I'm a Scientist.  They don't teach logic and analytical thinking to English majors, although in your case I guess I should say Language majors, so maybe I should be less hard on your ignorance.

you have decided to write in the most eye-hurting color available?  I originally chose this color because my post to Jacky was getting too complicated.  It was then that I decided that I should post what he wrote in red because he's a RPW and since I have a poison pen I thought I would post in a nice poisonous green.  It was clearly spelled out in that post.  It is just to avoid confusion.

Insult the regulars?  Of course I have insulted the regulars here, usually in response to them insulting me.  I can't help it if I am MUCH more talented in the insult department...

Scare away the newcomers?  I must beg to differ on that one.  Go back and read my original response to Gallowglass.  There is nothing that I said on it that was different from what he already knew and what Jacky followed up with.  Jacky (one of the evil overlords;- ) insisted on taking a poke at me there and I defended myself.  Also Sasya is a newbie and I have not insulted him when we have interacted.

And lastly, declare war on a group based on a member who left years ago?  I still don't know where you have come up with this one.  Yes I had trouble with a RPW, one of the more smug self-important ones of the group and I pretty much let that die after he hijacked my e-mail account. (although to this day Jacky will claim he didn't.  Hmm... Maybe Jacky knows that Reiter didn't do it because Jacky's the one that did it.  LOL)  It was when I found similar actions and attitudes among other RPW and Administrators that my dislike developed for them.  And really there have only been three others that I have had negative interactions with, you, Jacky and of course the Supreme Emperor and Grand Poobah of all things literary, Altivo, so maybe I shouldn't judge the whole group based on 4 individuals.  I mean there are bad apples in every barrel.  It just seems like you 3 are the only ones still active on the site and I can understand why.

And in the last paragraph the truth comes out, you wish you could kill me for voicing my opinion.  Just like every despot and dictator out there tries to bury the truth and those who speak it.  But that is nothing less than I expect from a former RPW.  ROTFLMFAO


Title: Re: Authors Deserving Attention
Post by: Erkhyan on June 02, 2013, 06:19:45 PM
English major. Now that’s an accusation I haven’t heard in a looooong while ;D Know that I graduated with a Baccalauréat Scientifique, option Physique-Chimie and that the full extent of my English cursus began and ended with secondary school.

And yes, I do think that in my case, the insult came from you first. Paraphrasing, you pretty much called me a toady because I admitted that having a different opinion with someone else wasn’t enough to start a full-scale pogrom. You then went on to latch on an insignificant label appearing in a corner on the screen, and assumed that it made me part of a super-secret agenda out to get you (boy, I’ve lived under a paranoid dictator, and that felt like the good old times again).

Thirdly, Sasya might not be a regular yet because the slump in activity meant that there wasn’t much interaction between all of us, but… at least two years of presence in the forums, no trolling wars started, and a posting a story that garnered mostly positive feedback? I don’t think any of us has considered Sasya as a newcomer for a long while.

And lastly, don’t get ego boosts. I’m not wishing harm on you, I’m only pointing at the hilarious fact that you complain about abuses of authority, call us overlords and such, and yet have been able to do so without any negative consequences other than a vocal debate. Such a poor dictatorship we make!


Title: Re: Authors Deserving Attention
Post by: Sasya on June 03, 2013, 11:11:48 PM
In honor of our new friend, I wrote a new story.  ^.^

It's erotic.

http://furrag.com/viewstory.php?sid=1806

~Foxy


Title: Re: Authors Deserving Attention
Post by: poisonpen on June 04, 2013, 03:07:16 AM
You better be careful Sasya, you're really gonna piss off the Supreme Emperor and Grand Poobah of all things literary, Altivo.  LMFAO  ;D  If I get some time I'LL try to give it a read, but I've got two chapters of different novels to finish so my fans on SoFurry don't get restless.


Title: Re: Authors Deserving Attention
Post by: Jacky on June 04, 2013, 11:40:32 AM
Well I didn't have to try very hard to give it a read. Really liking it Sasya, can't wait for more :)


Title: Re: Authors Deserving Attention
Post by: Sasya on June 04, 2013, 11:50:58 AM
*Happywags*  Thanks for reading it.  It really does mean a lot to me. ^.^ 
And there will be a part two sometime this week, if time permits.

~Foxy


Title: Re: Authors Deserving Attention
Post by: poisonpen on June 04, 2013, 09:29:21 PM
This is in response to Erkhyan

Very surprising, I would expect someone with a science background to have better logic and analytical skills.

Actually I just pointed out that even though you apparently disagreed with Supreme Emperor and Grand Poobah of all things literary Altivo, I had to twist your arm several times to admit you actually disagreed with his view. I didn't ask you to attack him, I was doing a good enough job of that.  LOL You can disagree with him without getting in a fight, or at least you should be able to.  If you are so sensitive that you feel that is calling you a toady then maybe you have a guilty conscience.

Actually where things got ugly was your Reply #32 on: May 22, 2013, 10:40:38 AM. Up until then I had been rather neutral with you, my main beef was with the Emperor and then with Jacky. It was you that decided to pick the fight. And being a former Marine I don't back down from fights.

And no I didn't think the RPW's had a a super-secret agenda out to get me. Get a life. I just think they are a bunch of pretentious pseudo-intellectual snobs all wrapped up in their own overinflated view of their self-importance. I never was under the impression that I was anywhere near important enough to even be on your (meaning the RPW) radar. And that was my whole point about you RPWs (you in the group sense, maybe not you in the singular sense since you say you didn't write any reviews), they felt it was their right and duty to go out and abuse people any way they saw fit. They were above others and writers feelings were theirs to trample on, because they were MUCH smarter than the rest of us since they were a Red Pen Wielder. Where you ever got this other idea is completely beyond me. My problem with the RPWs was their sense of entitlement generated by a stupid sophomoric title. Even the Emperor with all his vast shortcomings admitted that the name was not a wise choice claiming he advised against it. The name gives us an insight into the mindset of the members of that group, they were the teachers with the red pens and us Newbies should have to listen attentively while they dressed us down.

All that said, you demonstrated that you guys all stick together against outsiders and present a united front even when you disagree with each other. A perfect example was your refusal to publicly disagree with Altivo even though you philosophically disagreed with him. 

As far as you saying:  "Thirdly, Sasya might not be a regular yet because the slump in activity meant that there wasn’t much interaction between all of us, but… at least two years of presence in the forums, no trolling wars started, and a posting a story that garnered mostly positive feedback? I don’t think any of us has considered Sasya as a newcomer for a long while."

That speaks VOLUMES about this site that it has so little traffic that in two years someone who is supposedly active in the forums is still a Newbie. You guys should be thankful that I'm here now, this is the first time this forum has had a pulse in years.

I'd been here 3 years without starting any "trolling wars". I hadn't spent much time on the forums because they have basically been flat-lining since I have been a member.  My guess is that no one comes on here because opposing views are frowned upon.  Oh and I was told by Reiter to go to the forums where I would find such friendly helpful people, I should have figured that I would find people like him here.

Also if Sasya's story postings first review had been by a RPW that rudely said "you and your story suck" he might not still be here. 

And no I haven't spent much time before this on these forums, I have been too busy in the comments sections of my stories on SoFurry. My guess is that in the last two years there, the comment sections from my stories have generated more post than this whole forum combined and multiplied by a factor of ten. And there has been no as you say "trolling wars" on them, but then over on SoFurry I'm dealing with friendly regular people not a bunch of pretentious pseudo-intellectual snobs.  They are just a bunch of regular furs that like a good story.  I guess it's like the movies that draw big at the box office but get panned by the critics.  Those movie directors laugh all the way to the bank.

And in regard to your last paragraph:
And lastly, don’t get ego boosts. I’m not wishing harm on you, I’m only pointing at the hilarious fact that you complain about abuses of authority, call us overlords and such, and yet have been able to do so without any negative consequences other than a vocal debate. Such a poor dictatorship we make!

Again this just points out that you have absolutely no sense of humor. My referring to you as Overlords is sarcasm, which obviously went WAY over your head. The only one who I said abused his authority was the Emperor and even that I said was in an indirect way and of course Reiter, but you are too obtuse to understand that even after I tried to spell it out to you repeatedly.  I really think you should go in on the Genre section and remove the Humor option since no one here will understand any stories that contain humor.  Plus it isn't surprising that you RPWs and Administrators are as inept at being evil overlords as you are at everything else. *Where's the ROTFLMAO emoticon when you really need it...*


Title: Re: Authors Deserving Attention
Post by: poisonpen on June 04, 2013, 09:33:30 PM
This is in response to Jacky

I knew taking a poke at Supreme Emperor and Grand Poobah of all things literary Altivo would bring you out from under your rock to take a poke at me.  I knew you wouldn't be able to resist coming out and taking more abuse from me.

And I can understand how easy it is for you to jump on his story, since I'm sure your time and opinion are not in high demand.  I have 6 readers on SoFurry who have asked me to take a peek at their stories and give them my opinion of them.  I think if I have time to read stories I have more of a responsibility to read the stories of people who actually read mine and request my opinion before I read stories from random writers that post a general link to their story  They've read my stories, I owe them first.  When I get caught up I will try to give Sasya's story a read.

It also doesn't seem like you are very active in the writing department (unless you are posting somewhere else) so I'm sure you have TONS of time on your hands.  Do you even have a job or do you live in mommy's basement?  Do you have mommy's permission to use the computer?


Title: Re: Authors Deserving Attention
Post by: Jacky on June 04, 2013, 11:01:56 PM
*sticks fingers in ears* Lalala I can't hear you~


Title: Re: Authors Deserving Attention
Post by: poisonpen on June 04, 2013, 11:06:45 PM
That's about as childish as Red Pen Wielders, but exactly what I should expect.  LOL